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What do you think of Diane Ravitch's new book about NCLB, teacher unions, and her favorite teacher?

Have you read former Assistant Secretary of Education Diane Ravitch’s new book, the Death and Life of the Great American School System? It’s making waves because it describes her transformation from strong backer to leading critic of No Child Left Behind.

Read excerpts here and share your reactions on this discussion board. We will use some of your comments in the August issue of NEA Today, along with the book excerpts. So please let us know your name, your job, and the community where you work.

Thanks!

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NCLB assumed that shaming schools that were unable to lift test scores every year-and the people who work in them-would lead to higher scores. It assumed that low scores are caused by lazy teachers and lazy principals. Perhaps most naively, it assumed that higher test scores on standardized tests of basic skills are synonymous with good education. Its assumptions were wrong.

Diane is right on target here.  Most good educators realize that shaming never works to inspire people to work harder.  Good managers realize that employees work harder when they have the chance to be involved in the process.  NCLB fails on both counts!  As a special education teacher, I have watched the endless round of testing shortchange and demean my students, wasting valuable time that I could have been using to educate the WHOLE child.

My own son has never been a good test taker and by NCLB standards he was a failure.  But he had excellent teachers who taught him that life is more than a good score on a test.  He is now almost 30 years old and works as an emergency room technician and a part-time fire and rescue worker and in his free time runs a free karate program for kids.  Thank goodness he was in the pre-NCLB era of education and his teachers didn't have to sacrifice good teaching.  Instead, he received a well rounded education that helped him develope into the fine man he has become.

Here are some comments we got on our Facebook page:

Mary Eloise Rettinger Smith
WOW, I agree with almost everything Diane Ravitch said in the excerpt from her new book. I graduated from college in 1970 and have personally witnessed the fads in education over the last 40 years. I do not believe that standardized tests and common standards HAVE, NOW, or WILL EVER level the diversity that naturally exists in the abilities, experiences, and motivation of our students so all students will achieve equally.

Marie Massey
Reposted this link to my wall...because this book should be required reading by every voter in the USA....reading it now.

Nancy Arciuolo
Amazing insight into our educational system.

Gail Druker Illman
I graduated about the same time Mary Eloise did and agree!

Catherine Czapski
I also plan to put this on my summer reading list. It scares me to think that we are training kids to be little test-taking machines and not complete individuals capable of problem solving on their own.

Christine Jewell Bernard
I agree with all posters above. I've long said that the people who think that NCLB is reasonable need to be introduced to the Bell Curve!

Sara Kurtz
The excerpt was totally true! I am a new educator, onto my 4th year of teaching, and it's funny because in college they taught me to do more hands-on approaches, never ever teach to the test, and plan these elaborate thematic units. I came out of college fresh and ready for my big, fun, exciting ideas to get kids learning and right away my first ... See Morejob wiped away my exciting ideas. I taught third grade (a huge year in the testing world) and on top of it it was a school that was on continuous improvement so we had the state start to come in and watch. I was forced to teach to the test with the principal and administration breathing down my neck. I remember my stomach twisting in knots as the students took their OAT tests and I thought to myself "this isn't supposed to be what teaching is about!" It really killed my spirit! I remember taking the proficiency tests when I was a student and I hated them, I was never a good test-taker. And one of my number 1 fears of the current students is of us having high drop-out rates due to students hating school and not having fun like I did. I'm hoping it will get better and turn around!

Tori Mazur
I'm on the chapter about the Billionaire Boys Club. One more reason to boycott Wally-world.

Dorothy Petrie
Sara, even back in the dark ages when I a youngster in school, my teachers did all kinds of hands on learning activities, elaborate thematic units. We made salt maps of the USA when it was mostly territories, worked on group projects, took dance lessons with our sixth grade teacher, learned "new math" with the high school math teacher. A group ... See Moreof us--all girls--got to go to the high school chemistry lab to work with bunsen burners, glass pipettes, trying out different experiments under the watchful eye of the high school science teacher. He even let us dissect a friends kittens to determine their cause of death! This was way back in the early 60's. I don't know where and when this learning by test-taking became the gold seal of instruction. I, too, learned a myriad of ways to deliver instruction when I prepared to teach. With all the research on children's physical, social, emotional, psychological--even brain research development studies, we continue to be forced to teach in ways that are at best ineffective, at worst destructive and criminal, and that fly in the face of everything that is known and documented about the way children learn. I am reading Ravitch's book with the hope that some of us retired teachers can make the time to fight on behalf of kids and teachers everywhere!

Kathy DuPuis
I've heard so much about this book. I enjoyed the excerpts. I must buy the book. Having started teaching in mid 60's and now retired, I've seen and experienced many trends in education. The best teaching moments have been totally taken away with the constant atetntion now having tobe spent in teaching to pass a test.

Sue Lanphierd Clark
Amen to Kathy!

Michelle Moore
Excellent book! Highly recommend it.

I read this book right after it came out.  First, I was so excited to see someone saying the same exact things I've garnered from so many individual studies and publications.  Second, I can't believe that Diane's Book is not the most talked about and most pointed-to book anywhere right now.  Third, why are Arne Duncan and President Obama constantly saying they want research-based programs in public schools but they are pushing never-proven social experiments?  Finally, we need to see more experts like Diane Ravitch telling the whole world that what is going on in this country right now is public education being viewed as the next (or last) great frontier for capitalisim.  All of these so-called experts that want to keep tearing away at public education know how much public money gets pumped into public schools, and they are salivating over every way they can come up with in order to get their greedy hands on it. 

I can't wait to meet Diane at the NEA-RA in New Orleans.  I want to give her my most gracious thank you.

 

This book should be required Reading for all DOE staff, for all legislators and for every Principal, School Board Member and Superintendent in the country.

And, they all should be TESTED on what they learned.  This author dedicated her life to education.  Why don't the politicians put their egos aside for a change and acknowledge that she knows best. Everything she described has happened, is happening and will continue to happen.

No wonder other countries seek her advice and counsel (those that do well!) vs our own arrogant know nothing hot shots.

I loved reading this book. I think that every teacher who is serious about making a change in the current mainstream thinking about public education should begin by reading this book. The research she cites effectively debunks the arguments our legislators, state superintendents of instruction and others use against public education and public educators. Knowing that my legislators won't read the book, I will use the information from the book to persuade them to change their thinking about us. 

I believe that Diane's book should become our "Public Educator's Bible" - that we wave in the faces of all of those know-it-all reformers.  Spread the word and tell everyone you know about this book.  I agree with Christine; we should include a copy of The Bell Curve too.

I ran right out and bought this book after hearing Diane Ravitch speak at the NEA RA.  I couldn't agree more with the points she makes throughout the entire book.  I would love to have every citizen in the country read this book.  It gives me hope that if the right people do read it, then maybe we can get things heading in a more positive direction for everyone involved in public education, especially the kids!

I bought the Ebook as soon as I got home from the NEA RA and couldn't put it down.  Finally a voice of reason.  I've been telling everyone, educators and non, to read the book.  I see Diane Ravitch as one of our best hopes for getting across a sane message and to stop wasting time and money going in a wrong direction.  Can someone get President Obama and Secretary Duncan to read her book?

Like!  Laughing

Thanks all for starting this discussion.  I didn't even know there was a Diane Ravitch discussion going prior to RA!  At last, some fellow-travelers!

How much I did not know about education policy in the U.S. over the last 20 years.  How much I learned from this book!  And how very disturbing!  If I ran the zoo, this book would be required reading, along with Jonathon Kozol's Savage Inequalities, for all candidates for public office.  They would be required to submit to the public a minimum 500-word response--double-spaced, Times New Roman.  They could not get their names on the ballot until their essay was received, time-and-date-stamped by the secretary of state or whoever oversees elections in your state.

 

Edited: July 22, 2010 12:49AM

Diane Ravitch's article in the NEA Today has left me with mixed emotions because it just reinforces what I have long suspected about NCLB; that it will inevitably dismantle public education. Make no bones about it, NCLB is a beast to fight, especially in the political arena, where it is becoming increasingly difficult to discern a Republican from a Democrat. I only look on with disdain when I hear a Republican support a big government, bureaucratic behemoth that takes away local control. To make matters worse, Colorado's Democratically controlled House, Senate and Governor are now embracing the worst elements of NCLB; that of scapegoating teachers and unions for problems beyond their control by passing a new teacher-tenure bill. The way I see it, the only way to stop NCLB is to stop voting for the knuckleheads who support it!

I read Diane Ravitch's book, and think it's the most comprehensive look at education that I've seen in years. Her research is impeccable, her arguments well-supported, and her conclusions show vision, tempered with common sense. As an educator for almost thirty years, with experience in both private and public school education, it's my view that education has deviated from educating children [yes, the whole child] as its primary goal. Instead, as Ravitch so aptly demonstrates, test results drive each decision made by the "top-down" hierarchy that currently controls our schools. My suggestion? Each teacher, administrator, and board member should read Ravitch's book, and then mail the book to President Obama, to share with Mr. Duncan. Perhaps then we can really see numbers at work!

It gives me hope.  Like Diane's  favorite teacher, Ruby Ratliff, I spent 41 years teaching literature (I wish I had thought of the poetry for graduation idea!) and have seen grand plans come and go.  NCLB has hobbled us in so many ways and is one of the reasons I chose to retire last year.  But with people like Diane in influential places and with a national audience, maybe sanity can return and even reign in our classrooms, and maybe the tail can stop wagging the dog.  I am emailing my colleagues in the English Dept to read her article BEFORE school starts in their NEA Today magazine.

Like Deanna, I have written my colleagues to read this issue before school starts.  I read Ravitch's book last spring, and she said it all.  When my high school went into PI--and all it took was fewer than a dozen students not doing well enough on the exit exam  (out of a population of 2400) the first thing the consultants did was eliminate novels from all but the honors grades 9-10 curricula. This has not caused a great rise in test scores.

Although I was unable to attend the convention, I am glad Diane Ravitch was there, and union rep associates told me she got several standing ovations.  Oddly, my NEA local leadership has been very hands-off on the issue, saying that the union does not determine curriculum.

 

 

@Cindy, I read Diane's book early this summer, before RA.  I learned so much about the history of education policy over the past 20 years or so.  I found it very disturbing to learn how our union leaders appeared to have sold out on merit pay and during the Alvarado experiments.  More than one of my rank-and-file colleagues has expressed concern that NEA is far too reluctant to criticize the Duncan regime.   In terms of getting the word out to its members about RaTTT, NEA has been very, very silent.  I've had to go it alone in terms of educating myself about it, and now together with other colleagues we are educating ourselves.  I did not attend RA, but was very interested to know what was happening.  I relied on other locals on fb (Seattle Education Association, for one) rather than my own to give substantive updates and to provide links for what was going down in New Orleans. 

Vickie

@Cindy again:  one more thing, to this day NEA.org has stonewalled on posting the ENTIRE video of Diane's speech at RA.  What they posted are a heavily edited "snippets."  Granted, Diane is a historian and writer by trade, and not an orator, but still I wanted to hear the response of the rank-and-file on the floor of the convention.  The more NEA leadership stonewalls on this, the more convinced I become that they are determined to withhold information from its members. 

I just received my NEAToday, and read it from cover to cover.  Thank you, Diane Ravitch!  Finally, a realistic and truthful assessment of NCLB.  I am beginning my thirtieth year of teaching in both parochial and public schools.  When NCLB became the law of the land, I began to feel paralyzed in my teaching.  Everything is about the test scores, with their impossible benchmarks.  Common sense tells us that everyone does not learn at the same rate, in the same amount of time.  I believe that everyone can learn, but that some skills are going to take longer than others, depending on the learner.  A question:  Why isn't this article in the mainstream media?  Teachers across the country know the truth that Diane Ravitch has written, we've seen it in our classrooms.  This information needs to be in the national media, otherwise you are just preaching to the choir.  Thank you for including this article, and I plan to read her book.

Just read an excerpt in Nea Today by Diane Ravitch about NCLB.  I'm looking forward to reading her book.  It's always been apparent to a good educator that testing is important to determine what students know or need to know, yet our current NCLB requirements have stifled teachers' educational sense.  Emphasis on testing is taking away from the art of teaching and the relationships in our classroom and school.  If people like Ms. Ravitch could shed light on what a good neighborhood school can look like, then we can look forward to change.

I'm disappointed in the Obama Administration's educational plan and Arnie Duncun's "Race to the Top".  I want every child to have the opportunity to grow into a healthy, caring, independent learner; not just those whose legislators wrote a good proposal to "earn" funds to run an educational program.  A downward spiral indeed. Thanks to Diane Ravitch for her courage and insight.  I look forward to change.  

 



 

I am glad Mrs. Ravitch has had her epiphany regarding NCLB, however it strikes me as a little disingenuous her remark that she was "initially supportive". Was she not assistant secretary to then Secretary of Education Lamar Alexander under the first Bush presidency? As such was she not in position then to guide the development of educational policy in this country!? NEA Today should at least make mention of her role as assistant architect for the failed policies of the Republican administrations that have led us to the brink, instead of rewarding her with a "friend of NEA" award. Educators and students across this country are now paying dearly for Mrs. Ravitch's poor research while in her previous position. Only in America can you profit from a book written about the failed policies that you yourself helped initiate.

Jim

Thirty years ago an education professor stated to be very careful because a mistake in the classroom could have a devastating effect that might take years to overcome. She was talking about “academic” mistakes like teaching that 2 plus 2 equals 3. For the last 28 years I have thought about that statement every time I started my lesson plans. I lived in fear of making a mistake that might hurt a student. That has put me in hot water more than once because I also believed that mistakes in policy created the same danger. It’s really a bitter pill to now hear the so-called experts recant on policies that have not only hurt children, but also made teachers easy targets of abuse, and created a class of educational administrators that have no connection to children, students, teachers, or education.

I can’t give Diane Ravitch the benefit of the doubt or any respect! As she enjoyed the power to create policy, she became a part of one of the biggest educational mistakes in American history. Finding a conscience now is comparable to Hitler admitting he went overboard on the holocaust. When one considers the tens of millions of children that have been affected by NCLB, the crime becomes insidious. When one considers how teachers have been treated over the last twenty years, the crime becomes repugnant.

There should be a lesson here, but I doubt that anyone in a position to do something about this educational nightmare has the educational foundation to discern what is educationally right from what is educationally wrong.

I'm saddened by the bashing DR is taking here on NEA site.  I hope that those who are doing the bashing have at least read her book, not just the excerpt in NEAToday, in order to get the full context.

side note:  @Jim M.--hyperbolic comparisons to Hitler of anybody you don't like are a dime a dozen these days:   tired, intellectually lazy and yet still vastly insulting to the millions of humans who actually perished during the holocaust.

For those who are angry w/ Ravitch, please keep in mind that she is not an ideologue. She is first and foremost a historian.  I would think one would find that refreshing in this day and age, when we are inundated with celebrity hosts firmly entrenched in their political views, and who view people w/ differing opinions as "the enemy." 

So yes, it is quite possible for THINKING people to be persuaded to believe and support something, then look at the research and have a change of mind.  I give DR lots of kudos for having the courage to publicly write a book about her change of mind and heart.  She's getting hit from both the left and the right, I'm sure she knew that would happen.  She's taking on no less than the Gates Foundation, for crying out loud!

Yes, she worked in the first Bush administration, and was a proponent of NCLB.  I view this as giving her great credibility as a critic of NCLB and now of RaTTT.  In many respects she is the classic "whistle blower" in education policy.

Vickie

 

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